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Mammut

Bionic 8 Element 8 Owl
Bionic 8 Element 8 Owl
 
Version A Version B Version C
Version A Version B Version C
Version D Version E Version F
Version D Version E Version F

Overview


Bionic 8
(#1214)

Front Rear
Front Rear

Technical Details

InstructionsI acquired my Mammut Bionic 8 new from Mountain Gear in 2009.

The Mammut Bionic 8 is forged from aluminum alloy and then soft anodized. Mine is 120 mm. tall, 76 mm. wide, and 10 mm. thick. The rope hole is 40 mm. high and 51 mm. wide. The top center thickness is 6 mm. The shaft length and width are 34 mm. and 25 mm., respectively. The eye measures 24 mm. by 26 mm. My eight weighs 67 g.

The Bionic 8 has "MAMMUT" in raised forged letters at the top of each side, and a Mammut logo in plastic on the shaft.

Comments

The Mammut Bionic 8 is an unusual "mini" size, forged, aluminum eight. The unique shape reduces the weight of the eight considerably without a proportional reduction in rigidity. Unfortunately, reducing weight also reduces the ability of the eight to absorb heat, but the large surface to volume ratio aids in cooling.

The Mammut logo is poorly placed, since the rope can run over it, particularly on double rope rappels. I don't like running nylon rope over plastic, since something is going to melt. The ribs provide protection, but I would rather eliminate the pretty logo.


Element 8
(#1245)

Front Rear
Front Rear

InstructionsTechnical Details

I acquired my Mammut Element 8 new from Amazon.com in 2010. I acquired a second one from Anibal Rocheta in 2020, sold as a "Wall 8."

The Mammut Element 8 is forged from aluminum alloy and then soft anodized. Mine is 137 mm. tall, 74 mm. wide, and 14 mm. thick. The rope hole is 52 mm. high and 52 mm. wide. The top center thickness is 9 mm. The shaft length and width are 30 mm. and 27 mm., respectively. The eye measures 33 mm. by 25 mm. My eight weighs 97 g.

The Element 8 has "MAMMUT" in raised forged letters at the top of each side, and a Mammut logo in plastic on the shaft.

Comments

The Element 8 is near the lower end of the size range for a full sized, forged, aluminum figure eight. The Mammut Element 8 is lighter than most figure eights. The eye has a strange shape, and is not particularly suited for belaying.

The Mammut logo is poorly placed, since the rope can run over it, particularly on double rope rappels. I don't like running nylon rope over plastic, since something is going to melt. Unlike the logo on the Bionic 8, this one is not protected. The thickest part of the Element 8 is the logo; ignoring that, the body is only 12.4 mm. thick


Owl
(#1174)

Front Rear
Front Rear

Technical Details

I acquired my Mammut Owl new from Tony Brent in 2008.

The Mammut Owl is forged from aluminum alloy and then hard anodized. Mine is 136 mm. tall, 75 mm. wide, and 15 mm. thick. The rope hole is 52 mm. high and 52 mm. wide. The top center thickness is 10 mm. The shaft length and width are 31 mm. and 27 mm., respectively. The eye measures 31 mm. by 22 mm. My eight weighs 113 g.

There is a plastic insert on each side of the shaft with the Mammut logo, and "MAMMUT" appears in raised letters on each side, near the top of the eight.

Comments

The Owl is near the lower end of the size range for a full sized, forged, aluminum figure eight. I like the hard coating. The plastic logo is protected from rope abrasion; still, the eight will eventually wear and the logo will then make a mess on the rope.

The Owl and the Element Eight have the same plan form, but the Owl is much thicker than the Element 8. The thickest part of the Owl is 15.4 mm., just above the logo, compared to 12.4 mm. at the same point on the Element 8.


Version A
(#534)

Front Rear
Front Rear

Technical Details

I acquired this eight from Eiselin Sport in 1997.

The Mammut, Version A is forged from aluminum alloy and then soft anodized. Mine is 146 mm. tall, 77 mm. wide, and 16 mm. thick. The rope hole is 51 mm. high and 51 mm wide. The top center thickness is 12 mm. The shaft length and width are 46 mm. and 26 mm., respectively. The eye measures 26 mm. by 26 mm. My eight weighs 129 g.

The front of the shaft is stamped "MAMMUT," and the rear is stamped "kN 30." The top rear of the upper loop is stamped "05 LG."

Comments

The Mammut, Version A is a typical example of a full-sized, forged, aluminum figure eight. These are by far the most common figure eights. Everybody, their sisters, and their brothers seem to make one, and half the world's population and businesses have issued a custom version with their own name on it. I certainly have not acquired and tested them all, but I show the following eights as examples:

Image Eight
AMP Tiny 8 Alpidex Harmonia
AMP Tiny 8 AMP Tiny 8
Axis Axis
Beal Air Force 8 Beal Air Force 8
Brasovia Standard Brasovia Standard
Camp 548.00/01 (Otto Large) Camp 548.00/01 (Otto Large)
Climb Tech Climb Tech
   
Image Eight
Climb X Classic, Version A Climb X Classic, Version A
Climb X Classic, Version B Climb X Classic, Version B
Edelrid Petit-8, Version B Edelrid Petit-8, Version B
Edelrid Petit-8, Version C Edelrid Petit-8, Version C
Epic Peak Epic Peak
Field & Trek Field & Trek
Forester 8 Forester 8
   
Image Eight
Fusion Tiny 8, Version A Fusion Tiny 8, Version A
Fusion Tiny 8, Version B Fusion Tiny 8, Version B
Good Makings Good Makings
Hugh Banner, Version A Hugh Banner, Version A
Hugh Banner, Version B Hugh Banner, Version B
Hugh Banner, Version C Hugh Banner, Version C
Hugh Banner, Version D Hugh Banner, Version D
   
Image Eight
Luixada Lixada
Lucky Ecos Lucky Ecos
Mammut, Version A Mammut, Version A
Pellor Oumers
Pellor Pellor
S&L S&L
Stubai, Version D Stubai, Version D
SUT SUT
Image Eight
Trango, Version A Trango, Version A
Trango, Version B Trango, Version B
Trillium Health + Fitness Trillium Health + Fitness
Troll, Standard Troll
Wild Country Wild Country
Z&W, Version A Z&W, Version A
Z&W, Version B Z&W, Version B
   

Some of these eights are made in Europe, and some in Asia. Some are obviously rebranded eights, a good example being the Trillium Health + Fitness eight.

Each of these eights is 145±2 mm. tall and 76±2 mm. wide. Their weights fall in the 126±12 g. range. These are normal manufacturing variations that have no practical significance. Although similar, these eights are not identical, and close inspection will reveal some minor differences in their shapes. None of these affect their performance to any noticeable degree.

The AMP Tiny 8, Camp 548.00/01 (Otto Large), Fusion Tiny 8, Version A, Hugh Banner, Version D and SUT appear to have harder anodizing than the others, and may wear better. My experience with the high-quality hard anodizing on the similar CMI eights is that hard anodizing provides considerable protection on clean ropes, but the protection provided against cave mud is limited. In bad conditions the anodizing soon breaks through, and the protection is lost. For this reason, I don't place a lot of value on hard over soft anodizing for caving use, but I prefer hard anodizing for climbing applications.

None of these eights have slots for sticht-type belaying, and their round eyes are not really designed for that purpose. Some people will belay with an eight rigged for rappelling, but I don't like that practice since it does not provide the automatic locking assist and additional friction that a sticht plate or belay tube does.

Some caver friends refuse to use figure eights because they twist the rope. Eights are short drop devices, and the rope twist concern is absurd for short drops.

Many climbers think that eights are outdated, and prefer to rappel on belay tubes. I prefer belay tubes for belaying, but belay tubes get very hot when used for rappelling. Eights run much cooler. I would rather use an eight, but that may require carrying an extra device. On any given day, I make my choice about carrying a separate rappel device by considering several factors, and it is not unusual for me to carry an eight if I expect to be rappelling more than a very short distance.


Version B
(#3125)

Front Rear
Front Rear

Technical Details

I acquired this eight on eBay from Sandra Lopez in 2021.

The Mammut, Version B is forged from aluminum alloy and then soft anodized. Mine is 132 mm. tall, 75 mm. wide, and 13 mm. thick. The rope hole is 49 mm. high and 49 mm. wide. The top center thickness is 11 mm. The shaft length and width are 43 mm. and 24 mm., respectively. The eye measures 19 mm. by 24 mm. My eight weighs 105 g.

The front of the shaft is stamped "MAMMUT." The rear is stamped "2500 daN."

Comments

The Mammut, Version B is a "midi" size, forged, aluminum eight sharing one of the most common designs of this type. The following eights are quite similar, except for their markings:

Image Eight
Advanced Base Camp, Version A Advanced Base Camp, Version A
Advanced Base Camp, Version C Advanced Base Camp, Version B
Advanced Base Camp, Version C Advanced Base Camp, Version C
Anpen Anpen
AustriAlpin AustriAlpin
Brasovia Small Brasovia Small
Image Eight
Camp, Version B Camp, Version C
Camp, Version C Camp, Version D
Camp, Version E Camp, Version E
Camp, Version F Camp, Version F
Camp 928.00/01, (Otto Small) Camp 928.00/01, (Otto Small)
Camp/Lowe, Version A Camp/Lowe, Version A
Image Eight
Camp/Lowe, Version B Camp/Lowe, Version B
Climb High, Version C Climb High, Version C
Climbing Technology Ltd. Climbing Technology Ltd.
Cypher Descender 88 Cypher Descender 88
GrandWall GrandWall
ISC Stein RP110 ISC Stein RP110
Image Eight
Lowe Alpine Systems Lowe Alpine Systems
Lucky Ecos Mini Lucky Ecos Mini
Mammut, Version B Mammut, Version B
Mammut, Version C Mammut, Version C
Mammut, Version D Mammut, Version D
   
Image Eight
Omega Pacific Omega Pacific
Proverti CD 303 Proverti CD 303
Salewa Midi, Version A< Salewa Midi, Version A
Salewa Midi, Version B Salewa Midi, Version B
Zero-G Classic 8 Zero-G Classic 8
   

Some of these eights are made in Europe, and some in Asia. Some are rebranded eights made by one manufacturer for outside customers and labeled accordingly.

Each of these eights is 131±1 mm. tall and 74±1 mm. wide. Their weights fall in the 105±4 g. range. These are normal manufacturing variations that have no practical significance. Although similar, these eights are not identical, and close inspection will reveal some minor differences in their shapes. None of these affect their performance to any noticeable degree.

The AustriAlpin and Camp 928.00/01 appear to have harder anodizing than the others, and may wear better. My experience with the high-quality hard anodizing on CMI eights is that hard anodizing provides considerable protection on clean ropes, but the protection provided against cave mud is limited. In bad conditions the anodizing soon breaks through, and the protection is lost. For this reason, I don't place a lot of value on hard over soft anodizing for caving use, but I prefer hard anodizing for climbing applications.

The rope hole is shorter than normal, so it may provide too much friction on stiff or muddy ropes. Cavers should consider this possibility.

Some caver friends refuse to use figure eights because they twist the rope. I think that concern is absurd for short drops, and eights are short drop devices.

Many climbers think that eights are outdated, and prefer to rappel on belay tubes. I prefer belay tubes for belaying, but belay tubes get very hot when used for rappelling. Eights run much cooler. On any given day, I make my choice about carrying a separate rappel device by considering several factors, and it is not unusual for me to carry an eight if I expect to be rappelling more than a very short distance.

None of these eights have slots for sticht-type belaying, and their oval eyes are not really designed for that purpose. They can be used for "Sticht" belaying on 9 mm. rope, but the eye is a bit short for optimum use on 11 mm. rope. Some people will belay with an eight rigged for rappelling, but I don't like that practice since it does not provide the automatic lock and the friction that a sticht does.

Most of these eights have strength markings of 25 or 30 kN. To put this in perspective, the value required by EN 15151-2:2012 is only 7 kn. The excess provides margin for wear.


Version C
(#535, 2412)

Front Rear
Front Rear

Technical Details

I acquired this eight from Eiselin Sport in 1997.

The Mammut, Version C is forged from aluminum alloy and then soft anodized. Mine is 132 mm. tall, 74 mm. wide, and 14 mm. thick. The rope hole is 48 mm. high and 48 mm wide. The top center thickness is 11 mm. The shaft length and width are 43 mm. and 24 mm., respectively. The eye measures 19 mm. by 25 mm. My eight weighs 109 g.

The front of this eight is stamped "MAMMUT" on the shaft and is stamped "0297" (month of manufacture?) near the top. The rear is stamped "KG. 2500."

Comments

The Mammut, Version C is a "midi" size, forged, aluminum eight sharing one of the most common designs of this type. The following eights are quite similar, except for their markings:

Image Eight
Advanced Base Camp, Version A Advanced Base Camp, Version A
Advanced Base Camp, Version C Advanced Base Camp, Version B
Advanced Base Camp, Version C Advanced Base Camp, Version C
Anpen Anpen
AustriAlpin AustriAlpin
Brasovia Small Brasovia Small
Image Eight
Camp, Version B Camp, Version C
Camp, Version C Camp, Version D
Camp, Version E Camp, Version E
Camp, Version F Camp, Version F
Camp 928.00/01, (Otto Small) Camp 928.00/01, (Otto Small)
Camp/Lowe, Version A Camp/Lowe, Version A
Image Eight
Camp/Lowe, Version B Camp/Lowe, Version B
Climb High, Version C Climb High, Version C
Climbing Technology Ltd. Climbing Technology Ltd.
Cypher Descender 88 Cypher Descender 88
GrandWall GrandWall
ISC Stein RP110 ISC Stein RP110
Image Eight
Lowe Alpine Systems Lowe Alpine Systems
Lucky Ecos Mini Lucky Ecos Mini
Mammut, Version B Mammut, Version B
Mammut, Version C Mammut, Version C
Mammut, Version D Mammut, Version D
   
Image Eight
Omega Pacific Omega Pacific
Proverti CD 303 Proverti CD 303
Salewa Midi, Version A< Salewa Midi, Version A
Salewa Midi, Version B Salewa Midi, Version B
Zero-G Classic 8 Zero-G Classic 8
   

Some of these eights are made in Europe, and some in Asia. Some are rebranded eights made by one manufacturer for outside customers and labeled accordingly.

Each of these eights is 131±1 mm. tall and 74±1 mm. wide. Their weights fall in the 105±4 g. range. These are normal manufacturing variations that have no practical significance. Although similar, these eights are not identical, and close inspection will reveal some minor differences in their shapes. None of these affect their performance to any noticeable degree.

The AustriAlpin and Camp 928.00/01 appear to have harder anodizing than the others, and may wear better. My experience with the high-quality hard anodizing on CMI eights is that hard anodizing provides considerable protection on clean ropes, but the protection provided against cave mud is limited. In bad conditions the anodizing soon breaks through, and the protection is lost. For this reason, I don't place a lot of value on hard over soft anodizing for caving use, but I prefer hard anodizing for climbing applications.

The rope hole is shorter than normal, so it may provide too much friction on stiff or muddy ropes. Cavers should consider this possibility.

Some caver friends refuse to use figure eights because they twist the rope. I think that concern is absurd for short drops, and eights are short drop devices.

Many climbers think that eights are outdated, and prefer to rappel on belay tubes. I prefer belay tubes for belaying, but belay tubes get very hot when used for rappelling. Eights run much cooler. On any given day, I make my choice about carrying a separate rappel device by considering several factors, and it is not unusual for me to carry an eight if I expect to be rappelling more than a very short distance.

None of these eights have slots for sticht-type belaying, and their oval eyes are not really designed for that purpose. They can be used for "Sticht" belaying on 9 mm. rope, but the eye is a bit short for optimum use on 11 mm. rope. Some people will belay with an eight rigged for rappelling, but I don't like that practice since it does not provide the automatic lock and the friction that a sticht does.

Most of these eights have strength markings of 25 or 30 kN. To put this in perspective, the value required by EN 15151-2:2012 is only 7 kn. The excess provides margin for wear.


Version D
(#1072)

Front Rear
Front Rear

Technical Details

I acquired this eight from Benjamin Townsend in 2007.

The Mammut, Version D is forged from aluminum alloy and then clear anodized. Mine is 131 mm. tall, 74 mm. wide, and 13 mm. thick. The rope hole is 48 mm. high and 48 mm. wide. The top center thickness is 11 mm. The shaft length and width are 44 mm. and 24 mm., respectively. The eye measures 18 mm. by 25 mm. My eight weighs 104 g.

The front of the shaft is stamped with "MAMMUT," and the rear with "kN 30" and the Mammut logo. The top rear of the upper loop is stamped "05 04."

Comments

The Mammut, Version D is essentially a clear anodized variety of Version C.

The Mammut, Version D is a "midi" size, forged, aluminum eight sharing one of the most common designs of this type. The following eights are quite similar, except for their markings:

Image Eight
Advanced Base Camp, Version A Advanced Base Camp, Version A
Advanced Base Camp, Version C Advanced Base Camp, Version B
Advanced Base Camp, Version C Advanced Base Camp, Version C
Anpen Anpen
AustriAlpin AustriAlpin
Brasovia Small Brasovia Small
Image Eight
Camp, Version B Camp, Version C
Camp, Version C Camp, Version D
Camp, Version E Camp, Version E
Camp, Version F Camp, Version F
Camp 928.00/01, (Otto Small) Camp 928.00/01, (Otto Small)
Camp/Lowe, Version A Camp/Lowe, Version A
Image Eight
Camp/Lowe, Version B Camp/Lowe, Version B
Climb High, Version C Climb High, Version C
Climbing Technology Ltd. Climbing Technology Ltd.
Cypher Descender 88 Cypher Descender 88
GrandWall GrandWall
ISC Stein RP110 ISC Stein RP110
Image Eight
Lowe Alpine Systems Lowe Alpine Systems
Lucky Ecos Mini Lucky Ecos Mini
Mammut, Version B Mammut, Version B
Mammut, Version C Mammut, Version C
Mammut, Version D Mammut, Version D
   
Image Eight
Omega Pacific Omega Pacific
Proverti CD 303 Proverti CD 303
Salewa Midi, Version A< Salewa Midi, Version A
Salewa Midi, Version B Salewa Midi, Version B
Zero-G Classic 8 Zero-G Classic 8
   

Some of these eights are made in Europe, and some in Asia. Some are rebranded eights made by one manufacturer for outside customers and labeled accordingly.

Each of these eights is 131±1 mm. tall and 74±1 mm. wide. Their weights fall in the 105±4 g. range. These are normal manufacturing variations that have no practical significance. Although similar, these eights are not identical, and close inspection will reveal some minor differences in their shapes. None of these affect their performance to any noticeable degree.

The AustriAlpin and Camp 928.00/01 appear to have harder anodizing than the others, and may wear better. My experience with the high-quality hard anodizing on CMI eights is that hard anodizing provides considerable protection on clean ropes, but the protection provided against cave mud is limited. In bad conditions the anodizing soon breaks through, and the protection is lost. For this reason, I don't place a lot of value on hard over soft anodizing for caving use, but I prefer hard anodizing for climbing applications.

The rope hole is shorter than normal, so it may provide too much friction on stiff or muddy ropes. Cavers should consider this possibility.

Some caver friends refuse to use figure eights because they twist the rope. I think that concern is absurd for short drops, and eights are short drop devices.

Many climbers think that eights are outdated, and prefer to rappel on belay tubes. I prefer belay tubes for belaying, but belay tubes get very hot when used for rappelling. Eights run much cooler. On any given day, I make my choice about carrying a separate rappel device by considering several factors, and it is not unusual for me to carry an eight if I expect to be rappelling more than a very short distance.

None of these eights have slots for sticht-type belaying, and their oval eyes are not really designed for that purpose. They can be used for "Sticht" belaying on 9 mm. rope, but the eye is a bit short for optimum use on 11 mm. rope. Some people will belay with an eight rigged for rappelling, but I don't like that practice since it does not provide the automatic lock and the friction that a sticht does.

Most of these eights have strength markings of 25 or 30 kN. To put this in perspective, the value required by EN 15151-2:2012 is only 7 kn. The excess provides margin for wear.


Version E
(#536)

Front Rear
Front Rear

Technical Details

I acquired this eight from Eiselin Sport in 1997.

The Mammut, Version E is forged from aluminum alloy and then soft anodized. Mine is 113 mm. tall, 68 mm. wide, and 16 mm. thick. The rope hole is 40 mm. high and 46 mm wide. The top center thickness is 12 mm. The shaft length and width are 34 mm. and 21 mm., respectively. The eye measures 19 mm. by 24 mm. My eight weighs 101 g.

The front of the shaft is stamped with "MAMMUT," and the rear with "kN 25." The top rear of the upper loop is stamped "04LF."

Comments

The Mammut, Version E is one of several nearly identical "mini"-size forged aluminum eights. I have the following ones in my collection:

Image Eight
Camp, Version A Camp, Version A
Camp, Version B Camp, Version B
Image Eight
Mammut, Version D Mammut, Version D
Salewa Mini Salewa Mini
Image Eight
Trango Mini Trango Mini
VauDe VauDe

Each of these eights is 114±1 mm. tall and 68±1 mm. wide. Their weights fall in the 99±3 g. range. These are normal manufacturing variations that have no practical significance. Although similar, these eights are not identical, and close inspection will reveal some minor differences in their shapes. None of these affect their performance to any noticeable degree.

These eights are smaller and lighter than most eights. While the advantages are manifest, there are two practical disadvantages:

  1. These eights give too much friction on stiff, muddy rope. This will not affect climbers using clean, limp climbing ropes, but for cavers using stiff ropes such as PMI pit rope, this is a concern. I've found times that I could not descend without hand-forcing the rope through my eight, and I'm nearly 90 kg. (198 lb.), not exactly light (even for being 1.93 m. tall).
  2. Their small size does not not work well with doubled rope. While climbers may be able to work around this, especiallly if they are using thinner ropes, cavers using stiff pit rope will find it difficult to rig a double-rope rappel. If they succeed, descent may be impossible.

For these reasons, I rarely use "mini-size" eights.


Version F
(#1130)

Front Rear
Front Rear

Technical Details

I acquired this eight from Man Kim on eBay in 2007.

The Mammut, Version F is forged from aluminum alloy and then soft anodized. Mine is 108 mm. tall, 79 mm. wide, and 20 mm. thick. The rope hole is 36 mm. high and 59 mm. wide. The top center thickness is 11 mm. The shaft length and width are 27 mm. and 30 mm., respectively. The eye measures 25 mm. by 25 mm. My eight weighs 81 g.

The concave side of the shaft is stamped with "MAMMUT" and "kN 25."

Comments

The Mammut, Version F is one several odd-shaped, bent figure eights. Here are several that I have collected:

Image Eight
KWO Kabelwerk Oberspree (KWO)
Image Eight
Lucky Face Lucky Face
Image Eight
Mammut, Version E Mammut, Version E
Image Eight
Singing Rock Singing Rock
Image Eight
Trango Penta Trango Penta

The first of these was the KWO, and it was not intended to be a figure eight! Carsten Strietzel sent me a note on April 19, 2009, and described its origin. Here is what he wrote:

Hello Gary,

Thank you for your very interesting website.

Probably I can give some additional information according to the KWO eight.

This eight had its origin in East Germany, and was popular for climbers in the Elbsandstein.

KWO stands for "Kabelwerk Oberspree," and to my knowledge the initial intention of this device was a part of a industrial safety harness and not a abseil device. I think to remember the device was mounted at a belt for climbing poles, thru the large hole was the strap sewed on the belt and the small hole was the attachment point for the carabiner.

…the non intentional use of things was very popular for us East German climbers….         :-)

I might be wrong, but to my recognition the western versions of this shape appeared later.

best regards
Carsten

I asked if he remembered when the KWO eight appeared, and he replied as follows:

I would say the KWO "eight" appeared  1984/85, but definitely before 1987.

The idea worked well enough as an eight, and others copied the design.

Each of these is 107±1 mm. tall and 79±1 mm. wide. Their weights fall in the 80±1 g. range. These are normal manufacturing variations that have no practical significance.

These eights are smaller and much lighter than most eights. While the advantages are manifest, there are two practical disadvantages:

  1. These eights give too much friction on stiff, muddy rope. This will not affect climbers using clean, limp climbing ropes, but for cavers using stiff ropes such as PMI pit rope, this is a concern. I've found times that I could not descend without hand-forcing the rope through my eight, and I'm nearly 90 kg. (198 lb.), not exactly light (even for being 1.93 m. tall).
  2. Their small size does not not work well with doubled rope. While climbers may be able to work around this, especially if they are using thinner ropes, cavers using stiff pit rope will find it difficult to rig a double-rope rappel. If they succeed, descent may be impossible.

The bend allows rigging these eights in two ways with differing amounts of friction. The short overall length and sharp bends makes this eight rather "grabby" when using the high friction arrangement on sandy ropes.

None of these eights have slots for sticht-type belaying, and their round eyes are not designed for that purpose.